3 ectopics later what would you do??

Living Life Without Children
1

Hi Ladies,

I have not been here for a while and i am not sure i am posting on the right board. I have been trying too get on with my life after suffering my 3rd ectopic (which was question marked as non viable pregnancy!!! it was all confusing and i still dont know what happened). This was only 6 months ago and i ended up in emergency surgery in germany on holiday, but they saved my tube.

I know what i am going to ask is a personal choice and i will have too decide but i wondered if any of you had any thoughts or words of wisdom on this.

I still have my left tube(2 ectopics left side) my right tube taken 6 years ago (1st ectopic). I have just found out yesterday my best friend(my one remaining childless friend) who i love dearly is pregnant, i am so happy for her, but it has brought up my own situation about trying too come too terms with living my own life without children. the doctors have advised me that if i did fall pregnant naturally and the chances are now very low because my left tube is so damaged and i have hydrosalpinx, that the chances of another ectopic are extremely high and they would prefer i went through IVF, in fact they advised me strongly too not try naturally ( my stubborn self thinks what do they know, they dont know everything!!!). Problem is i am in limbo, firstly because i have the most terrible fear of pregnancy from all the trauma i have suffered yet i still feel an empty place inside and also because on a personal level i do not feel IVF is for me and that i have a deep seated belief that if the natural way is not going to happen then it is just not my fate, that does not mean i have anything against IVF for others, not at all.

I have a wonderful partner ,i have spoken to him today and he too is not wanting the IVF but said he would go for the natural way once more if that is what i want.

Do i take the chance of going for it naturally one more time, which is soooooo scary because its just not in my favour. I can only describe the way i feel as a small glimmer of hope inside me that says ‘give it one more chance you never know god may smile down on you this time’ but then the sensible voice kicks in saying ’ dont be so stupid he cant change the fact your tube is knackered :lol: ’ the docs gave me an 85% or higher chance of another ectopic. the other problem is that i have spent the last 6 months trying too make sure my head is in a place that can accept a life without children, i have also had some counselling to help me with this but now this, i just never thought i would even be thinking this way again.

What would you do??? help its such a hard decision and so scary too think i may be in that life threatening position again, but a part of me wants to do it anyway!!! and a big part of me does not!!!

Thanks for listening

Rachel

2

Hi Rachel

I’m really sorry you’re having to face this decision. It’s probably come back to haunt you seeing your best friend get pregnant. It’s easier (I think) to face life without kids when you’re doing that with someone else you love. My sister didn’t have children, and her and her husband weren’t planning to, when this happened, and I guess I felt that at least I’d have someone in a similar position to go through life with. Even to grow old with - two old ladies bickering away (we’re sisters - we bicker!) , but at least we’d be together! Then she and her husband had a tragedy (his son from his first marriage died), and together they decided to try for a family. She had her daughter when she was 42, and it was quite a shock to me. I’ll be honest if I say that when I first heard she was trying to get pregnant, I almost hoped that she wouldn’t. It was very hard to face, to realise once again that I couldn’t do what I’d hope, and what other people can do so easily. I can tell you now, a few years on, that I love my niece, that my sister (even though we live in separate cities) does rely on me, knows I’m there for her, and I do treasure the relationship I’m building (or hoping to build) with little C. I think my sister understands too.

I guess what I’m saying is that I understand how this has brought everything up for you again. It will hurt. Sometimes unexpectedly. But it can be wonderful too.

Whether to stop, to try IVF or to try again - wow, hard decisions. All I can tell you is that after two ectopics (and at 40 years old), and the realisation that IVF wouldn’t work for me, I was prepared to give it one more try naturally, and prepared to face the possibility of another ectopic pregnancy. (It turned out that both my tubes were blocked, so I couldn’t try again naturally). I made this decision on the basis that I wanted to feel I’d tried everything, and I knew time was pretty much running out.

We all make our decisions on our own experiences though. I’d been lucky - I had really good medical treatment during my two ectopics (despite my second - an interstitial (cornual) ep - being long and complicated and hard to diagnose then very hard to treat). I was also temp-ing, and so knew when I’d conceived and wasn’t left wondering or caught by surprise with my eps. So I had faith in that if I did have another ep, I’d be safe and well treated. That was a big part of my decision to try again, as much as I hated the idea of facing the ttc madness again. (The one thing about IVF is that it actually takes that madness away - or did for me).

We all have our limits. There have been lots of conversations on this board over the last few years about this, but unfortunately they get deleted after a while as part of the site maintenance. The thing is, my limit was not IVF - it was donor egg, and then adoption. I didn’t feel I could go for donor egg (and in NZ where I live it was really difficult to do anyway, and my younger sister - who was the only option - was also “too old” at 37), and my husband wasn’t keen on adoption. So we knew that that was the end of things for us. But I’ve seen a number of women here who have gone on to use donor eggs, or to adopt. And that’s great for them. It just wasn’t right for us. And that’s ok. Others have had similar feelings about IVF as you, and that was their limit. You and your husband have to decide what is right for you. And to have the confidence and faith in each other that whatever you decide, it is ok. Yes, sometimes you might wonder. Sometimes I wonder about whether we should have adopted. But it was a decision that was right for us, and it was a decision that was ok to make. So I’m ok.

And you’ll be ok - whatever you decide. I’m now ALMOST 7 years on from learning I’d never have children. And I’m doing ok. You will too.

I hope you can make sense of my waffle. I’m not good at brevity!!

Best wishes

Linda

3

Hi Linda,

Thanks for your reply. i have read quite alot of posts by you over the years of being on here and have found your words a true comfort and inspiration to me, because i know i will get through this one way or another, but the decisions i have too make along the way are very difficult ones. In many ways i feel i am lucky because although i have always thought i would have children one day there has always been a part of me that was unsure wether i wanted them, for me i have always believed that if it is meant too be it will be. I have managed to get through on that alone really because i believe that my life was obviously meant to go in a different direction and as hard as it is i still feel lucky that i have more than so many others a loving partner a good job great holidays and a good social life. Regardless of all this my main concerns are that if i dont try everything will i one day regret this. I said to my partner yesterday maybe if we get a dog it will fill the void :lol: . By the void i mean that i often feel i have alot of love too give but in a different way to the love i give to my partner and family and thats what i feel is the missing part of me, its difficult to explain having never had children but i want to be able to care for and love and give everything in a way that i feel i could to a child. Like you Linda, adoption is not for us and my partner already has children(all older). My IVF letter is going to arrive next week and to be honest i do waiver on my decision with that quite often. Most of my problem is fear because i have had such traumatic pregnancies that i think we always wonder will i have the strength to go through it again, will it tip me over the edge if it does happen, i dont know if my desire overides my fear.

I always worry too about when i get older, both my partner and i have big families and i know that my nana and his mum are always in the company of the children and grandchildren every weekend and its what keeps them going, who will i have when i am old and frail, will i be the one living alone people whispering she never had children of her own she is old and lonely, does this sound crazy??? its does worry me though, but the journey to have my own family has been such a terrible one, can i face more disappointment, resentment at people who get pregnant so easily, anger, hurt and pain. I only associate negative feelings towards a pregnancy of my own because it has never resulted in the positive joy of giving birth to my own baby. Linda it is so hard sometimes and indeed unfair, but i am a strong person and i hope that i if i never have children, which is highly likely i will be able to forge a positive life living without them. I am very excited for my best friends pregnancy and pray all is well for her, i have no negative feelings on that front but like you say it just brings up my own worries and fears for myself. You live in NZ, my other best friend is moving there from Dubai in two weeks and i am trying to convince my partner to go there next year for at least 3 months.

linda, you a wonderful lady and i hope to speak more.

Rachel

4

Rachel, if you come to NZ we’ll have to meet up!

The old age thing is a tough one. I think of my parents, who ended up doing a lot of caring for my mother’s uncle in their old age. My great-uncle and aunt were very special to me and my sister, especially after we lost our grandparents. They had three children. They never saw them. Two lived overseas, and one of those would breeze through from time to time on his way to a sailing trip around Tahiti or another such exotic location. The other lived over an hour’s flight away, though still in NZ. He rarely visited. And so they were alone. I also look at my parents-in-law. (If you’ve seen some other posts of mine this will sound familiar). They have four sons. Three live overseas. All their grandchildren are overseas. They only have us. These days (in NZ certainly), there is no guarantee that, even if you have children, you won’t spend your old age alone. My mother lives alone now, and all her grandchildren are either grown and living elsewhere, or tiny and living in a different island. So she’s alone, and sometimes a little lonely, but she’s coping a lot better on her own - she’s joined groups and is out with them at least once a week - than the lady over the road who has a daughter and grandchildren she sees regularly. I’ve come to realise that being old and lonely can sometimes be our own creation. Even though it is one of my “ouch” issues.

In fact, you said “my nana and his mum are always in the company of the children and grandchildren every weekend and its what keeps them going.” That’s the thing isn’t it? If we don’t have kids (and I won’t), I don’t rely on seeing children or grandchildren to keep me going. I know that I’m going to have to keep me going. And I’m not afraid of that so much now. And you know, it was that realisation - that I didn’t need children to “keep me going” or to make my life worthwhile - that has helped me get through this. It’s just that getting to that stage can be quite hard, and you’re nowhere near that yet, as you’re still debating over IVF. You’re still "hoping i will be able to forge a positive life living without them (children)'. There will come a day (if you go down this road) that you will KNOW. And knowing it, rather than just hoping, is really empowering. I felt more content knowing that than probably at any other time of my life.

I sense you doing something though that I’ve done a lot. When you said "will i be the one living alone people whispering she never had children of her own she is old and lonely, does this sound crazy???" No. It’s not crazy. But it’s not entirely rational either. What you’re doing is imagining other people thinking your own thoughts. I’ve done that a lot! All the most terrible things I’ve thought about myself (or perhaps haven’t admitted that I think about myself), I’ve imagined other people saying to me, or whispering behind my back. And you know, I know those fears are irrational, and it’s taken me a while, but I don’t worry about that now. And when I catch myself doing that - imagining others are thinking the worst possible things about me - I can recognise it. And when I can’t stop it, I at least know that I’m working through the worst case scenarios, which are never likely to come true.

Sorry - I’ve ranted and waffled yet again! Can I say that if I were you at the moment, so undecided, that I’d investigate IVF, learn everything I could about it (ie about things like natural IVF - when only one embryo is created), and then decide if it feels right for me. And if it doesn’t, then that is okay. Give yourself permission to say, “enough.” There’s been a lot of talk on this board about being swept with feelings of relief when that decision is made. It doesn’t take away the pain, but it does give you comfort that the decision is right, and that you will be okay afterwards.

Love

Linda

5

Hi Linda,

Yes indeed you are so right about the old age thing, it has often been one of my reasoning tools (in my rational moments) too help my mind know that being lonely when i am older is not going to be down to the fact i have no children, because as you say there are also alot of elderly whose family leave the nest and often even if they live close by they do not visit or stay close, so i totally understand that. its just in those times of doubt that those irrational thoughts enter my head.

I have not had a very good week, i was in A+E last saturday with severe abdo pain had scan on thursday(i am not pregnant) i have something called ovarian torsion, a cyst twisted my ovary which can cause gangrene of the ovary apparently and severe pain, they wanted to operate but my pain has eased so they said i can leave it for now unless pain returns, i also had a knee operation yesterday morning, supposed to be routine to clean out some torn cartilage and turned out they had to drill holes in my knee bone so i am now on one leg on crutches for 4 weeks and have just discovered that i cant even carry a cup of tea or a plate to the sofa!!! :lol: at least i will be alot thinner in 4 weeks, i hope too god the ovary pain does not return because i will have to have gynae op whilst being unable to walk, OMG i wonder when will it end??? I had a slight panic attack too because i had to go to the gynae emergency room(same place as ectopics diagnosis) started telling the nurses no way i am coming in for any ops on my stomach as i cant cope, this only brings up the fact that i am not in any place anyway to cope with a pregnancy right now or any time soon.

I hear what you are saying too on the fact that you are in a place of knowing and feeling totally at ease with having no children, and yes your right i know that once i get to that place i can truly move forward and make long term plans about my life and how i can put my energies into something i have passion for, like setting up my own elderly care business and trying too give something and help, i have put off doing this so far and it has always been my dream to make the lives of older people more fulfilling and less empty and lonely as i know many of them are, any ideas welcome too!!

My newly pregnant friend is coming today, so at this moment i am in the place of no IVF, lets see if seeing her makes this any different i know myself too well too know not too make any rash decisions, i am unfortunately or not however you choose to look at it, a person who can mostly always see the positives and negatives in so many things that it does not help the decision making process.

I have waffled too yet again, but its really nice to talk too you and listen too your wise, insightful and inspiring words.

Thank you Linda

By the way, my friend is moving too wellington, although her and her partner have applied too work in singapore for a while, they are waiting to hear on this, her partner is from NZ, they are school teachers, so hopefully if they manage to find work in wellington i will come and visit next year and i would love to meet up. Funnily enough the plan was too come with my best friend and her partner as they were going for a year, but this is the one that is pregnant(unplanned but very much wanted).

Rachel x

6

Hi Rachel

I couldnt stop by without sending a quick reply.

After my EP we were offered IVF and i was absolutley positive that it wasnt for me / us. Not then anyway - far too soon (about 1 year after ep). 3 1/3 years after ep i did first ivf! Have done 6 cycles now. All unsuccessful (well one almost made but ended in mc).

I now know ive reached the end of this journey and that we dont want to go down donor egg or adoption route and i doubt very much (although i cant say never just in case we win lottery tonight) that we will do ivf again. Although i know this is probably the right decision its not been easy but my logical brain thinks im doing the right thing.

I did have doubts though a few weeks ago when i found out some friends dh and i once worked with are now pg and i know they will have done ivf - green eyed monster was well and truly out of cage - BUT im still sticking with my decision (although its a hard habit to break - nearest thing ive had to an addiction since i got bored of tetris!) and i do have that nagging litle voice in my head that keeps asking ‘why not me?’

We all hvae our own cut off points as it were but i just wanted to kind of say it might just take a bit more time for you to be sure what yours is. One thing ive found with this long and hard journey is that a little time and space can help you see things more clearly and can take some of the sting out of things that hurt.

Good luck with whatever you decide

Sez

x

7

Just wanted to add that I found an article that says “Remaining Childless Does Not Lead To Loneliness In Old Age” and was based on a survey of almost 4000 people. It was very interesting. And in fact, this comment really intrigued me.

“*Some people throughout their lives held onto the idea they were disadvantaged. They continued to feel left out of something that was important to them. But other infertile men and women adjusted to their childless status and voiced no regret.*”

It’s that old idea that happiness is being content with what you have, not wanting what you don’t have. It’s what I’m working on, and I know is possible. It just takes time.

Linda

8

Hi Ladies,

Sez, wow what a hard journey/road you have been on too get too this point, that must have taken an awful lot of strength to go through. When did you make the decision that it was the end of the road for you and how did you face and cope with that? I am so sorry you have had to go through such a hard journey and i totally understand how hard it all must have been.

Linda, Totally agree about happiness and wanting what we cant have. I think acceptance is a major part of moving forward, this is a place that i have yet to find but as you say it will take time and i have too be patient.

I am still in that place of unknowing and confusion. I also have the fact even if i decided IVF was for me my partner has expressed his feelings of now not wanting to go through with it!!! which i will be honest i am feeling a little resentful about because he has children. I got my letter this week saying i am allowed one IVF attempt and it can start in september/october. The other problem i have is that if i went ahead with it(partner obviously would have too change his mind) i have too have another operation, which is a big part of me not wanting to do it, i feel i have been through so much already. Funny thing is i have had time, i have had space and i have had counselling to try and help my decision on the future and learn to deal with it, but to be honest it has made no difference really, because all the doubts and fears are still there, i think this is something that will not change. I do realise that the day will come when i know the journey has ended and i will find a way and move on.

What is not helping is my best friends pregnancy and how shocked i am at her insensitivity(she is the most caring considerate person) but i wonder wether i am just extra sensitive. She came round yesterday and the first thing she said was wow the scan was amazing did you know you can see a heartbeat at 6 weeks, at that point i felt physically sick and had too stop myself from shouting ’ of course i @!"*@@ bleeping know, what you think when its ectopic it does not have a heart beat and then they tell you they have too take it away’!!! feel she is giving me too much detail and it is freaking me out because i want too be there for her but i dont how too be without getting angry, she keeps telling me about the happiness and joy everyone has shown her etc etc and even the small things she is saying about what she can and can not eat is winding me up… WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME, i feel like i am just being mean… any tips on how i can handle this better??

Sorry for ranting i am having a bad week due to my knee op and the latest news that i have got too walk on one leg with crutches for up too 4 months, minimum 2 months!!!

Rachel

9

Hi there - I’d really like to know what happened next - the original condition you had - sounds like a hydrosalpinx i.e. blocked tube. If you have a remaining healthy tube - there is no reason particular reason for you to be pushed down the IVF route. - Especially as living with on whilst on IVF - decreases your chances. I think I may be in a similar situation - keen for a natural pregnancy.- but baffled - instead of addressing the root cause i.e. removal of the tube - the Health care professionals want to bi-pass the issue with assisted fertility. From reading your post - you are not infertile - and i’d always understood IVF is to treat infertility…

10

Wow, you girls are such an inspiration, even when you’re ranting and waffling I have gleaned so much support from just reading this thread. Our EP was 6 months ago, and all the thoughts / ideas you’ve expressed here have gone through my head over the last 3 years.

I could go on for hours, but I will just leave you with an experience of my own; my beautiful husband changes his mind frequently, which can be stressful, especially when it comes to drawing the line about how long we will continue TTC. I’ve found it helpful to fix my mind on the most logical idea (as I perceive it) and going with that one idea. We’ve decided that in 4 years if we haven’t had success we’ll stop, and we’re happy to go with IVF as a last resort but not donor. Hubby has said recently that one more pregnancy loss (m/c 3 y ago) is all he can take, which is not easy to hear, but at least its concrete. All this has helped me to make a distinction clearly in my own mind.

My heart goes out to you ladies, and thankyou for your generosity in sharing your thoughts and feelings.

X

11

Just a bit of perspective on changing your mind.

I never wanted children. I am educated & pretty strong-minded - and I have a very full life. I met my husband late in life & he wanted kids eventually - but didn’t push the issue at all. I got 2 dogs & all my time was taken up training them. I don’t really like babies & have never felt broody at all. I very reluctantly went along to the IVF clinic more to please my husband & so that he didn’t blame me in future if we didn’t have kids. By that stage I was 45. I stated categorically that I would never resort to donor eggs.

We decided to do IVF - although I was still in 2 minds about it. We were warned that I only had 1% of having a baby - and TBH I was quite pleased as it meant I could go through the motions without the ‘risk’ of having a baby. So we did one round of IVF & of course I got a BFN. By this time having gone through the process I was a bit disappointed that it didn’t work. As I had responded well the clinic agreed to do a second cycle. This time I really wanted it to work - but again a BFN. And so, guess what - I changed my strong, educated & determined mind and decided to go with donor eggs.

We fell pregnant immediately with my first pregnancy at 48 - but at 8 weeks was diagnosed with ep & lost a tube. I absolutely loved being pregnant & how I wish I had got started earlier. I simply cannot believe that I changed my mind so radically - I’ve never done such a thing before. I still wish I could have my own baby - yes, I can’t think of a DE baby being entirely mine. But it’s much much better than nothing - and at least it will be my husband’s biological baby. Now that I am getting used to changing my mind I suspect I will feel differently once the baby is born - so watch this space . . .

So I would say take it all one step at a time and see how you feel as each stage progresses. I am just waiting for FET probably next week. I will be a complete mess. I have gone from never wanting a baby to it occupying my thoughts for quite a lot of every day. My husband and I have agreed to continue until it happens - regardless of the cost. I suppose my only fear is that if things go wrong (esp. EP or late mc or stillbirth) that I just won’t be able to carry on emotionally - or that I will really get too old (60?). At which point I will wish I had never opened Pandora’s Box in the first place. But then again - remember Hope was trapped in the lid of the box, and so that is what I am focusing on.

12

Hi Linda - I know you posted this a long time ago but thanks for your lovely clear words - I am finding them very supportive x

Linda:
Rachel, if you come to NZ we’ll have to meet up!

The old age thing is a tough one. I think of my parents, who ended up doing a lot of caring for my mother’s uncle in their old age. My great-uncle and aunt were very special to me and my sister, especially after we lost our grandparents. They had three children. They never saw them. Two lived overseas, and one of those would breeze through from time to time on his way to a sailing trip around Tahiti or another such exotic location. The other lived over an hour’s flight away, though still in NZ. He rarely visited. And so they were alone. I also look at my parents-in-law. (If you’ve seen some other posts of mine this will sound familiar). They have four sons. Three live overseas. All their grandchildren are overseas. They only have us. These days (in NZ certainly), there is no guarantee that, even if you have children, you won’t spend your old age alone. My mother lives alone now, and all her grandchildren are either grown and living elsewhere, or tiny and living in a different island. So she’s alone, and sometimes a little lonely, but she’s coping a lot better on her own - she’s joined groups and is out with them at least once a week - than the lady over the road who has a daughter and grandchildren she sees regularly. I’ve come to realise that being old and lonely can sometimes be our own creation. Even though it is one of my “ouch” issues.

In fact, you said “my nana and his mum are always in the company of the children and grandchildren every weekend and its what keeps them going.” That’s the thing isn’t it? If we don’t have kids (and I won’t), I don’t rely on seeing children or grandchildren to keep me going. I know that I’m going to have to keep me going. And I’m not afraid of that so much now. And you know, it was that realisation - that I didn’t need children to “keep me going” or to make my life worthwhile - that has helped me get through this. It’s just that getting to that stage can be quite hard, and you’re nowhere near that yet, as you’re still debating over IVF. You’re still "hoping i will be able to forge a positive life living without them (children)'. There will come a day (if you go down this road) that you will KNOW. And knowing it, rather than just hoping, is really empowering. I felt more content knowing that than probably at any other time of my life.

I sense you doing something though that I’ve done a lot. When you said "will i be the one living alone people whispering she never had children of her own she is old and lonely, does this sound crazy???" No. It’s not crazy. But it’s not entirely rational either. What you’re doing is imagining other people thinking your own thoughts. I’ve done that a lot! All the most terrible things I’ve thought about myself (or perhaps haven’t admitted that I think about myself), I’ve imagined other people saying to me, or whispering behind my back. And you know, I know those fears are irrational, and it’s taken me a while, but I don’t worry about that now. And when I catch myself doing that - imagining others are thinking the worst possible things about me - I can recognise it. And when I can’t stop it, I at least know that I’m working through the worst case scenarios, which are never likely to come true.

Sorry - I’ve ranted and waffled yet again! Can I say that if I were you at the moment, so undecided, that I’d investigate IVF, learn everything I could about it (ie about things like natural IVF - when only one embryo is created), and then decide if it feels right for me. And if it doesn’t, then that is okay. Give yourself permission to say, “enough.” There’s been a lot of talk on this board about being swept with feelings of relief when that decision is made. It doesn’t take away the pain, but it does give you comfort that the decision is right, and that you will be okay afterwards.

Love

Linda

13

Thank you ladies and best of luck to you all really I am so happy to have ran across this support group I am feeling much better…after an extremely abusive ex gave me two STD’s (curable luckily) I had an eptopic pregnancy. Part of my tube was repaired via surgery, I still have both but have no idea how bad the blockage or scar tissue is. I want kids so bad, I’ve met the most perfect guy, going to go to the doctor after my quarter ends (I’m in school) and see what can be done about it. Love to you all xoxo