Desperate for some advice and support

Alternative Routes to Parenthood
1

Hello, I’m not sure where to post this, but if it’s not in the right place I’m sure the mods with move it.

I’m desperate for you ladies to give me some advice … and a little bit of support and sympathy, and to know whether anyone has a similar story to me.

A little background – I’m an oldie on this board, I had my ruptured EP in December 2008, which was IUI. I then had a failed fresh IVF, another fresh IVF which resulted in the birth of my beautiful daughter Tilly who is now coming up to 3 years old. In the last year (since May 2012) I’ve done an FET with embies from Tilly’s IVF – fail. Another fresh cycle – fail. Another FET with embies from that one – fail. And am currently on my 2ww with the latest fresh cyle. Although I was on stronger dosage, I was slow to respond (as was the case with Tilly pregnancy), and the nurse told me on the second scan that we may have to abandon the cyle. However, this is the first time we have gone to blastocyst and we transferred 2 “excellent quality” embies. None to freeze. We have followed the same protocol with just a slight increase in Menopur (the dreaded mixing) and I have had Endometrial Scratching (2 sessions). My drug support since EC is Cyclogest 400mg. I asked the nurse whether I should be on Progynova as well as Cyclogest for support as I was quite sure I was on both when I got pregnant with Tilly. She told me “nooooo, I don’t think you were, we don’t use it in fresh cycles, only FET”. I was utterly convinced and have only recently read in my diary of that cycle that indeed I was right and was on both (I am gutted I didn’t think to look for that evidence sooner obviously).

Well, on my 2ww, I have had a week since ET with stomach cramps much like period pains varying from mild to chronic. I’ve also had varying colours of mucus and tinted wee, cream/pink/brown and a tiny bit of bright red on 2dpt. (sorry!). I’ve only had one day with no pain and no colour or discharge whatsoever and that was this Saturday gone. Yesterday, back came the brown mucus and wipes. Today at 5am I have bright red blood. It is enough to strain a liner and lots when I wipe and also red tinted wee.

I’m pretty sure with this show up, that this cycle is all over as we all know bright red blood is never a good turn up!

I think I’m in a state of disbelief of “not again”, belief because of the blood, and convincing myself perhaps it’s just bleeding from somewhere else! My official test date is Friday, and although I don’t have a test at home yet (due to the last 3 emotional fails) I will buy one and do it on Friday just as proof.

What I’d like to know from you ladies, is …

• Anyone else had this experience and gone on to have a positive test?

• What support drugs have you been given? I think there is a problem with implantation/good enough lining.

• What drugs are used for implantation? And has anyone been given drugs after ET to keep the lining strong enough?

• I’ve read about Baby Asprin being given – anyone had this and what is it for?

• Should I be having blood tests to check immunity/hormones/whatever else I don’t know about?

I am full of questions of “why can’t I get pregnant again if it’s happened before?”. Short of insisting that I had Progynova as well as Cyclogest again, I’m not sure what else can be done, which is why I’m asking you ladies.

I did say to DH at the start of this cycle that I was not sure I could handle doing any more after this one if it was a negative result. My state of mind today is that I will do one more go – that is if the clinic agree I should keep going. But I’d like to have some potential drug change knowledge before we go in for a chat.

My last question is … should we change clinic? Am I just clutching at straws there? We have been with the same clinic all the way through. I’ve now done 7 fertility treatment cycles in all. 1 x IUI. 4 x Fresh IVFs. 2 x FETs.

Thank you all.

Topcat

x

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Hi

I understand your anxiety and feeling vulnerable and being worried. I am seeking advice from one of our experts we will do our best, to obtain some information for you.

X

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Hi Topcat,

I have only just seen this, how are you doing? Am so sorry that you are having such a tough time of it and that no one picked up the message, this board doesn’t seem to get used as often. Did the spotting stop?

I have only recently done a frozen cycle which resulted in a positive test (am now 19 weeks) and I had lots of spotting, clots (some very large ones), coloured mucus and so on. It was a horrendous time and so really feel for you if you are going through the same. I was convinced at the time that it couldn’t work out right but I actually had some bruising (called subchorionic hematoma I think) from where the embryo had implanted which was causing the spotting and also breakthrough bleeding from when my period would have been due. I was on cyclogest and progynova until 12 weeks. When I had a previous fresh cycle, I was also on pessaries and patches (was in Japan so can’t remember the names) until 10 weeks.

Hope that you are doing ok and big hugs to you. Will check back to see how you are.

Angie xxx

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Hi Angie

Thanks for taking the time to respond to me - I was beginning to feel nobody would.

I started to bleed on the Tuesday (my test day was to be the Friday), so come Tuesday evening when I started using tampons instead of constantly wiping it away and seeing it, I knew it had failed. Humiliating as it is I did HPT on the Friday mainly cos I was trying to convince myself the blood was something else, but it was of course negative.

I spent that week a bit numb and seemed to accept it, this week though I’m really struggling, I’m cracking up inside under a front of make up, smiles and very little chat. I go out, see people, make little conversation only because I want to keep everything normal for my little Tilly (nearly 3), who goes to nursery, loves seeing her friends and goes to a play group too. I wouldn’t get out of bed, wash, eat, talk, otherwise.

I’m sad, angry, resentful, bitter, regretful. I hate seeing babies, my mummy friends are pregnant, or having babies. One had her baby last Saturday - (who test me when I was in the clinic car park after my first FET fail), another who has 2 already, had a cyst removed last year and lost a Fallopian tube and ovary with it, had the face to talk to me of all people about her fertility fears and worry of not being able to give her DH a son, (she knows I had a ruptured ectopic and had Tilly via IVF and had more over the last year) - she text last week saying “we are expecting bogof babies in September”!!! I honestly want to smack her. I know it’s nobody’s fault I’m the way I am with my useless uterus, but that just rubbed salt in the wounds and I have to see her at nursery, it’s awful I can’t look at her properly, I don’t want to ask how she is cos I don’t want to hear it, and she’s not really looking at me either - not that she’s ever made much of an effort with me, other then to effin winge. Sorry … I did say I feel angry.

I’ve been googling non stop. I’m considering self medicating to ttc naturally until we go again - if the clinic say to go again that is. I’ve read about baby aspirin, coq10, royal jelly.

I’m also pee’d off with the clinic. My first IVF I was given 200mg cyclogest and came on early. The 2nd I was given 400mg cyclogest and Progynova, which resulted in Tilly. FETs were progynova and cyclogest and both fresh Cycles I was given 400mg cyclogest. I’m soooo annoyed I wasn’t given the progynova with the cyclogest as support again. Why not??? The nurse told me they don’t use it, but I knew I had it. To me that obviously made a difference? My sister keeps on at me saying “you should demand a refund” … Not helping!!!

All I want is another child, it’s not too much to ask, we are good people. You know, the feeling never leaves you, even once you are really really lucky enough to have had one. I know I’m lucky to have mine. I used to come on here and read the few women’s posts about trying for a second and struggling, and I remember thinking 'my god you’re so lucky, what are you sad for?", now I know how they must have felt. Fertility. It’s hideous. I feel so alone with this. I have one good friend who knows how it feels, she’s had 4 fresh ICSI cycles all fail, I can talk to her about it all, but I feel I’m being unfair to her and rubbing salt in her wounds, I know she’d say not at all, she’s so lovely, a better person than I am.

And to top my day off, DH checked our on line lottery tonight … We were one number and one star away from winning £53 million. What’s the chances of those numbers coming up again? Maybe the same as us getting pregnant and having another child maybe?

LIFE!

Sorry for my rant.

Topcat x

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Hey Topcat,

You have no need to apologise for your rant - this is why we have these boards… Sometimes you just need to let it all out. All I can say is am sending you huge hugs (((((((())))))))))))) IVF is such a hard thing to go through and especially torturous when you know it does work now that you have your lovely DD.

Am so sorry that this round didn’t work for you. Try and give yourself time to deal with it, but I can appreciate that it must be difficult when you have your daughter to look after. You have every right to feel angry and upset and don’t try to force yourself to deal with other people’s pregnancies/babies and so on, just focus on yourself. It is ok to be a bit selfish, especially when you need to protect yourself from feeling more hurt. I can definitely relate to other mummies sailing easily from one pregnancy to the next and then moaning about how hard it is. Most of my mummy friends don’t know my history of EPs and IVF, only my very close friends and I think it can make you feel quite detached from it.

Regarding your clinic, have you had reviews done when the cycles have failed? Have they given you any advice about what they would recommend changing or what they might monitor more closely to increase your chance of success? I think also sometimes you have to be quite pushy about what you want as well - I can’t understand why they won’t have given you progynova as well if that is what you had before. I know lots of clinics have different protocols but still. I know that you can get your hormone levels checked as I looked into that in this cycle. If all else fails, you could always get a consultation somewhere else and see what they would suggest?

As for the lottery, I have heard that most people who win it, end up having it ruin their lives - so maybe you are best off without it…!

Big hugs Angie xxxx

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Topcat hello. Don’t know if you remember me but I too have been on these boards for a number of years.

To be honest I could have written your post myself about a year ago. I wanted to let you know that there is light at the end of this dark tunnel, I’m lucky I got my happy ending but went through a lot of what you are currently experiencing. We already had a child too and I thought it would be easy to conceive again now we had proven our fertility. We did get pregnant easily but that turned out to be my ectopic and it took another 4+ years after that to finally get lucky. We tried 11 cycles of clomid one cycle of which ended up with a missed miscarriage at 11 weeks then 3 cycles of IVF 2 fresh and one frozen. All of these were failures. So so hard to get your head around when you have already had success once. We were going to have one last go but my consultant recommended a procedure called laprascopic ovarian drilling which I had done March last year. They basically lasered some holes in my ovaries and did an HSG too. To our amazement we conceived naturally 2 months later.

My feeling about it is/was that assisted conception just wasn’t meant to be for us. You have so many variables to contend with along the way and even when everything looks good ie perfect embies (which we had each time we tried) they can still fail. I believe it is totally down to luck. If there is any chance of conceiving naturally I would try before next IVF because you just never know when a miracle might happen. It did for us (she was born 5 weeks ago) and I had totally written us off ever having another child. ds is now 6!

I can totally relate to the feelings of utter jealousy towards friends and colleagues who are pregnant. I felt totally isolated in my grief of not being able to conceive again and even though people knew about it noone could help me, it was a very lonely experience. It is harder in a different way when you already have a child as you say, you can’t avoid other mums who are pregnant for the 2nd time and it really hurts!

Best of luck my love and sending big hugs xxx

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Hello Louismum

I do remember you from years back. Thanks for your message. It means so much to know there are others out there having all the same feelings and struggles to cope, the same as me, that can share and sympathise and know what to say to me.

I’ve never heard of ovarian drilling and have googled it, but all I’ve come by is that it’s used for ladies with PCOS. Is this why you had it. Unfortunately we’ve never conceived naturally albeit we do still try, this period took 34 days to arrive and yes, kid myself i did, then it turned up bold as you like to kick me when I’m down!

I’m continuing to struggle with the emotions and its getting harder and harder and I hate seeing my (loosely termed) friend getting bigger and bigger - another one. I don’t want to see her, I don’t want to talk to her, I feel very awkward when others talk about her and I say nothing. I’m struggling with her the most. She looses a tube and ovary due to a cyst, she chooses me to speak to of her fertility fears, the very first attempt to conceive their 3rd child and what happens? Her text to me (when she knew I was having treatment again) “expecting bogof babies”. I’m mortified. Isn’t it every IVF’ers dream to have twins? It’s salt in the wounds and I hate it. She now barely looks at me, I asked her how she is today and the answers very simple, she can never ask me how I am.

I also go to Zumba class with 2 other friends. I stop going every time I’m stimming. I have to tell the ladies that run it that I’m taking a break each time, and I’m starting to hate going back every time. Last night was my first time back, one of the teachers asked me if I was ok, very intensely, I said yes but still didn’t want to be there and found myself telling her. Se said “it will happen”. I wanted to scream. In the session I also found myself getting very emotional - which hasn’t happened so far each time I’ve gone back. It was an overwhelming sense of sorrow that yet again I’m back there, not pregnant, yet the one that is missing is the pregnant “bogof” friend. I wanted to stand on the stage and shout out how much it hurts. Not even my ‘best friend’ picks up on how hard it must be for me to keep going back. I know nobody understands, I know nobody knows what to say, ever. I do feel so alone with it. But I appreciate you and all the other ladies responding to me know how I feel, and although Ian computer, I know you understand and know what to say.

God, I feel better getting that out. Probably not the best place to post this, but still.

On the up side, we’re doing another cycle scheduled around June. I’m on DHEA, an asprin a day and will have progynova to support post transfer (if we make it that far). I think this could well be the last attempt. I don’t think I can deal with it again and again and it is getting harder. I’ve been seriously thinking about donor eggs with DH sperm. I would adopt so I don’t see why I wouldn’t consider donor eggs. However, my husband is totally against adopting and donor eggs, although I’ve asked him to start thinking about it. I cannot believe though how expensive donor ivf is.

Thanks for listening.

Topcat x

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Just a quick note to say that I get the going back to class thing - I’ve just had my first failed IVF after two ectopics resulting in no tubes left. I stopped going to my dance class during stims and it is so rubbish being back there when all I want to do is say I can’t go as I am pregnant. Feeling your frustration, anger, pain amped down right irritation that every single person is pregnant - even the bloody dance teacher!!!

Hope you are feeling a bit better - I am feeling less down but am frustrated at the 6 month wait for my next cycle so that is keeping my blood pressure up!

Take care xxx